So 8 days definitely would have been the right call. I’m going to heed this warning to myself on the next spawn.
On 7-26-2013, there was definitely a hatch of offspring. Somewhere between 25 and 50 larvae had hatched out, but the REST OF THE NEST remained unhatched.
By the morning of 7-27-2013, what I *should* have seen was more fish hatch out, but sadly, instead what I found were a bunch of dead eggs scattered all over the bottom of the black round tub. All of these were siphoned out. So despite the addition of Methelyne Blue, which if anything should have helped the eggs remain viable until their hatch, the vast majority of the nest, easily 500-700 eggs, died instead of hatching.
But the real kicker, by the late evening of 7-28, all those larvae that HAD hatched out? Gone. Vanished. Nowhere to be found and no BODIES seemed to swirl up either. There was ONE swimming around that I could find, and by the morning of 7-29, that one was gone too.
Not to worry though, late in the afternoon of 7-29-2013, the next spawn occurred. By my online records this should be spawn #8. So I get another shot at this. It will be very hard to resist, but I will NOT pull the nest out for hatching in a larval tank until the night of August 6th, 2013. What I *might* do is run a larval snagger on the night of the 5th, just in case the babies get all uppity and decide to all hatch on the “first night” of hatching.
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Every bit of data I have says “8 days to hatch”. I went back and looked…every spawn I tracked, 8 days. Eg. if a spawn occured on the evening of the 1st, it will hatch after lights out on the night of the 9th. Everything suggests that.
So it’s an incredibly tense evening after MISSING the last spawn. Back on 7-19, they threw down another nest.
The latest Lightning Maroon Spawn, photographed on 7-20-2013
This is simply torture. The eggs LOOK ready. But all my data says NO, they’re not. The tank temp is 83F…warmer lately because it’s summer. Could 7 days be it? Incubation times are definitely temperature sensitive.
I’m torn. I just went and looked again. The dilemma is simple. So long as I don’t KILL the eggs by pulling them too early, the safer bet would be to pull them tonight. That’s likely what I’ll do…it’d be nice to get another group of Lightnings off the ground. Even if I’m successful, the offspring from a hatch tonight wouldn’t be at market size until January 2014 (unless I really pushed for crazy fast growth).
Update – 3:30 AM, 7-26-2013 – I pulled the nest with 5 gallons of broodstock water and placed it in a BRT. I did something I’ve never done before – added 2 ML (40 drops, roughly 8 per gallon) of Methylene Blue to the water. This is my standard procedure with freshwater Angelfish (Pterophyllum scalare); a process so bulletproof that if the eggs die, I’m comfortable with the belief that the eggs were bad, NOT the incubation. Methylene Blue was implicated in my most successful artificial incubation attempt with Pterapongon kauderni, the Banggai Cardinalfish, during my research for the Banggai Rescue Project book, The Banggai Cardinalfish. I have no doubts at this point that using methylene blue in the holding water during hatching can only help things. We’ll see…
So last week I was busy busy busy; wrapping up the Banggai Recue Book and off to the MBI workshop. Sometime last week, in the chaos, the Lightning Maroon pair spawned, a nice big nest in their new tile home.
Of course, chaos this week continued, another book to edit, another freelance gig, and when I went to pull the nest on the anticipated hatch night, it was GONE. @!#%!#!#%!
In other news, during the chaos last week Reefs.com gave us a first look at the two Lightning Maroons, BZLM1 and BZLM2, on a pay date. It will be very interesting to see how pairing goes for these two…we’re several months away from stability in my opinion. Case in point, watch the smaller fish (destined to be male). Those are submissive shakes – those are TAILBEATS…an aggressive behavior designed to attempt to knock your opponent off balance. Here’s the video, and for more, check out the Lightning Maroon Playdate on Reefs.com.
So the suspicions are true, these two Lightning Maroons are destined to become a pair!
The story was published moments ago on Reefs.com – details are being kept quiet, but according to Reefs.com, the purchaser’s plans are to “keep the fish in their 120 gallon tank as the centerpiece of their show tank. The buyer was not specifically interested in breeding them, but if they do decide to mate the eggs will be transferred to the Long Island Aquarium and raised by Todd Gardner and Joe Yaiullo. We’ll have photos of the fish in their new home soon!” Read the whole story at Reefs.com
As I posted on Facebook, to read that makes me very happy and proud. These fish found the perfect home in someone who “gets it”. “This is a total win for the fish – while concerns that “rare fish collectors” would snag them up and not see the light of day again, it sounds like the anonymous winning bidder totally gets it. I could not be more thrilled; the responsible decision to ensure their genetics are not sequestered is commendable. BRAVO!”
I’m looking forward to following this pair for years to come; the winning bidder certainly will have his/her work cut out in the pairing department as will ALL the winners with these fish. Simply putting two siblings together will, in my experience, result with only one sibling. Much as I did with the wild fish, it seems that forced size differentiation with ongoing screened social interaction is going to be what it takes to push two similarly sized fish into being a compatible pair.
Today the next two fish, from the first batch of 5 sent to Blue Zoo, found homes today.
BZWS1 – the first White Stripe offspring from the wild Lightning Maroon pairing – courtesy Blue Zoo Aquatics
The auaction for the first white stripe offspring from the wild pair, BZWS1, closed with a bidder who’s held the top spot for several days now, closing at $810.00 – thank you to everyone who bid! To the winner, as I’ll relay to ALL winners of my auctions, I do invite you to get in touch with me and continue to track and share the progress with your fish here at The Lighting Project.
Two more White Stripe Maroons from the Lightning Pair are still up for auction – BZWS2 and BZWS3, one closing at 9 am central time tomorrow, the other at 9 pm central. When these two fish wrap up, that will account for all 5 fish I sent to Blue Zoo in our first shipment being sold.
BZLM1 – the second released Lightning Maroon found a home tonight – image courtesy Blue Zoo Aquatics
The other auction that closed tonight was for the small Lightning Maroon, BZLM1, with a closing bid of $10,520. I was pretty convinced that when today started and it sat at $5100, that was where it would remain. I was wrong.
The best part? While I have NO CLUE who the winning bidder is, it is the same bidder who successfully purchased BZLM2 yesterday. I can only assume that these two fish will be paired??? A total guess…I truly don’t know. But, if paired, what a pair they will make!
Obviously, pairing them will be no easy task…it will require months of segregated growing, and particularly rationed feeding on the small one with liberal feeding to the other, in order to push a large size disparity so that once paired, it’s a harmonious, peaceful pair. Even then, long time readers of The Lightning Project know exactly how difficult it’s been to pair up these PNG Maroons…this is no different. Obviously I’ve already extended my personal invitation and support for this, and all bidders in the future, as I’d like to see everyone be very successful. Anything I can do to help. I would LOVE to see this pair grow and change over the years…and I suspect you all would too! Open invitation stands!
My thanks goes out to all the bidders once again; I personally appreciate the excitement and interest you’ve ALL helped generate, and I take the interest as a compliment towards the project and my efforts.
BZLM2 – the first Lightning Maroon Clownfish to be sold at auction by Blue Zoo Aquatics. (image copyright Blue Zoo Aquatics)
BZLM2 – the first Lightning Maroon Clownfish to be sold at auction by Blue Zoo Aquatics (image copyright Blue Zoo Aquatics)
The post title pretty much says it all. Moments ago, the first captive-bred Lightning Maroon clownfish to ever be sold has found a buyer via eBay. You can view what’s been described as “An Epic Tropical Fish Auction” here.
My hearty congratulations and thanks go out to the winning bidder. As the bidders identities are kept private, even I do not yet know who the winning bidder is. I look forward to this bidder stepping forward and keeping us all up to date on this fish as it journeys out into the world.
I love the internet’s ability to royally “get it wrong”, and this edition of Lightning Maroon Clownfish Mythbusting points to one of my own home clubs (I’m a lifetime member of TCMAS); the thread? Ligtning (sic) Maroon on Ebay
Shibb’s wrote; “Blue Zoo is actually selling FOUR offspring. Only 2 have the really “lightning” markings, though.”
Not entirely true. Currently, four of the five auctions have started…Blue Zoo opted to stagger them 12 hours apart. As I type this, the last of the 5 initial fish could be listing later today. This 5th fish shouldn’t be a surprise either, as I showed images of all 5 being shipped to Blue Zoo in the announcement, PLUS had them all listed in the “inventory“.
Furthermore, this is just the first shipment to Blue Zoo. As I’ve posted numerous times now, all over the internet, I have approximately 30 total fish slated to be released. Provided everything goes smoothly with Blue Zoo, it’s safe to assume that the remaining 25 Lighting Maroon offspring will also be sold, at auction, by Blue Zoo, in the coming weeks / months.
The ones that don’t have “really lightning” markings are classified by me as White Stripe Maroons. They have Lightning parentage. We simply do not know whether there’s any genetic lightning material in these fish, so to think so is to speculate. I’ve written about this numerous times now 😉
At this point, if anyone is bidding with the mindset that these current fish are the only 5 fish that will ever be available, well, I’ve done everything possible to put this information out there!
Myclang wrote; “Hilarious if it dies in shipping right!??!”
Well, certainly not hilarious. Certainly a risk, a possibility. But just as I stood 100% behind the fish I shipped to Blue Zoo, so is Blue Zoo ensuring these fish arrive alive. I would expect them to do no less as they ship fish for a living! I will be highly skeptical of DOA claims…afterall, these are captive bred Maroon Clowns…not something touchy.
drahotad wrote; “I believe he owed blue zoo some of the first offspring if i remember correctly, and is probably keeping the best ones still up north 
“
I actually owed Blue Zoo nothing…the Lightning Maroon and it’s offspring were free and clear mine to do with as I pleased. That said, 3 years ago, I made the unilateral offer of a right of first refusal to Blue Zoo, and I of course stand by that offer and you see it coming to fruition now.
While I have yet to do an inventory of every last fish I’m currently holding back, it’s not many. I have the well known Lightning X Lightning pair, which do happen to be very nice ones. I’m also planning 2 more pairs to leave here as backups, as well as a Lighting X White Stripe and a White Stripe X White Stripe. Still, there’s plenty of lookers in the fish currently slated for release.
WS12 – does this fish carry critical Lightning genetics, or is it just a plain white stripe Maroon? We simply don’t know!
More than any other question I’ve received in the past year, is one that once again, came up in a private communication from Carl W. Phillips Jr. tonight. He asked, “Mr Pedeersen whats you opinion of what the stripe maroon will throw some lightning ??”
My response: “I’ve written about this rather extensively on www.Lightning-Maroon-Clownfish.com and elsewhere. My gut feeling is that they are not carrying any special genetics; their value is in maintaining the PNG provenance, as well as the unknown results of Lightning X Lightning…what if that cross is fatal? I think the results of the parental cross do suggest a genetic inheritance, and it’s reasonable to assume that the mating of the Lightning Phenotype to the regular White Stripe Phenotype ought to result in the same phenotype spread in the F2 generation. Here’s some details for you to review -> https://lightning-maroon-clownfish.com/?p=1712“
Obviously, we still do not have answers to the genetic questions surrounding the Lightning Maroon…so far all we can say, based on observations, is that the pattern seems heritable (of the 2 very small that hatched and survived in the spring 2013, one was White Stripe, one was Lightning). However, the 50/50 spread in the F1 generation is a possible phenotpye ratio for all three common forms of genetic expression. It could be that the white stripe siblings, with their slightly scalloped edges on their stripes and increased horns and spots might be representative of a very subtle “singe dose” form of a partially dominant lightning gene. Then again, it’s just as possible that very subtle patterning is irrelevant / separate from Lightning altogether. And that could mean that they could carry a hidden single-dose recessive lightning gene, or, in my opinion, they might simply not carry any lightning genetic material themselves. As I relayed to Carl, it’s best to review the full rundown of the Genetic Possibilities behind the Lightning Maroon Clownfish – in drawing on what we know from other fish and other clownfish specifically, I put less than a 1/3 chance that Lightning is recessive, which means I also think there is less than 1/3 chance that the regularly patterned offspring carry a hidden lighting gene.
So to purchase a white striped sibling on the speculation that two of them mated together will produce lightnings is just that – speculation. Then again, if Lightning was revealed to be the result of 2 recessive alleles, or if “Lightning” is the double dose of a partially dominant allele, then these white stripe siblings would be very important to the creation of MORE Lightnings.
In the end, it’s fair to say that we absolutely do not know, and therefore couldn’t make any promises of any kind regarding the genetics. It will take many more crosses with different pairings, and counting of all the offspring that result, to help determine with some certainty exactly how the Lightning gene works. I’m going to guess that it will take another 3-4 years before we have that answer.
– Followup – not even 12 hours later, I’ve answered this exact question at least a half dozen more times today, and seen at least one internet post from someone who stated that the Lightning trait is “recessive” (which while possible, is in my opinion highly unlikely and absolutely something we cannot know at this point…the data we have doesn’t exclude or point to any one option).
LM12- looks great, right? But where’s the ventral fins! D’oh!
As of 2:35 AM, Friday, June 21st, 2013, all 30 fish initially planned for release have been posted here on this website for your review and consideration. Please review the Lightning Maroon Clownfish Offspring Inventory to see all 30 fish.
The motivations behind this monumental task (it took me in the neighborhood of 20 hours to complete) was to show the full range of fish that I had in the growout system, a tank I hope to clear and sell off all fish. By showing them all in advance of any auction, I consider every bidder fully informed as to what fish are out there, either now or in the short term future.
Most importantly, I wanted to make sure I was abundantly clear as to the flaws in each fish…many are culls which we had discussed only making available to approved breeders who understand that the defects in these fish are likely not genetic. I think it was Joe Lichtenbert, but it may have been another clownfish breeder, who recalled the experience of raising hundreds of white stripe Maroons together, and when it came time to selll the fish, only FIVE ideal, suitable specimens could be found…out of hundreds. Looking at the fruits of my labor, I think it’s fair to say that communal rearing absolutely played a role in causing a lot of blemished fish.
WS16 definitely shows signs of battle scars from a younger age.
I still am wondering about the early rearing as well…some of the bulldog / pug nosed fish really shouldn’t have looked that way with the use of the black round tub (which normally prevents fish from pressing up against the hard surfaces in the early days, which is often what causes this defect as flexible cartilage calcifies). And yet, they still showed up in the group. Maroons are notorious for facial deformities as the result of mouth-to-mouth combat that starts pretty much the day they settle. So it’s possible that a lot of what we’re seeing is from THAT.
Still, there are some really exciting fish in this mix. I’m not terribly proud of the end results, but they’re absolutely better than nothing. By my count, there are roughly 16 of the 30 fish that, were they any other fish, would be immediately culled and euthanized, never to be sold. There’s easily another 4 I would be keeping my eye on to see how they continue to grow. And in truth, I think there are less than 5 fish which I really couldn’t find any issue with.
So, before you bid, please be absolutely sure find the fish you’re looking at in my inventory, and to read all the details and my opinions on the fish you’re considering. I want you to have very realistic expectations with the fish you’re going to receive, as I’d hate to receive a fish that let me down.
From the 6/19/2013 Blue Zoo Aquatics Newsletter:
Lightning Maroon Clownfish Update
Through multiple media channels, word has gotten out that the first round of baby Lightning Maroon Clowns are going to go on sale very soon. Matt Pedersen announced the forth coming offering on his blog site yesterday and it is true, we now have, in our holding system, these illustrious and now world famous fish. Click HERE to read more.
Matt’s blog says it all really, but in a nutshell, these first 2 Lightning Maroon patterned offspring and the first 3 siblings will be offered for sale through our eBay account starting this weekend. These F1 PNG beauties are the only available PNG bloodline Maroon Clownfish left on the market AND they are the first Lightning patterned clownfish to hit the market since Mama Lightning was imported and sold to Matt almost 3 years ago. The auctions will be open to anybody with an eBay account in the US and the first shipments to the lucky winners will hit around the first week of July.
We will have more information, with links to the various auctions, this Saturday so make sure to check your inbox.
Be sure to sign up for Blue Zoo Aquatic’s newsletters, you can do so directly on their homepage, so you don’t miss any important information!
For more details on the fish being offered, please read the full Lightning Maroon Clownfish release announcement which includes detailed instructions, posted yesterday.
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